Wednesday, November 29, 2006
Joining the church
The New Testament tells of people being baptized the first time the evangelist met them, eg. Philip and the Ethiopian eunuch, the Philippian jailer and Paul. In the Adventist tradition there are 28 doctrines a person is supposed to study or at least 13 if you believe the 13 questions on the back of the baptismal certificate are the minimum. How much should a person understand before they are baptized? We baptize children from 8 years onwards. They do not study all 28 or even all 13. Some adults are like children do not have a great capacity to understand all these doctrines but they do love Jesus.. Now some will reply that we should separate baptism from membership but that begs another question: What is the real meaning of baptism? Since we do not believe it is a sacrament (a means of salvation) but a symbol, what is it a symbol of? If You read Romans 6 and 1 Cor 12 you find that it is a symbol of the death and resurrection of Jesus and also becoming part of his body. The local church is the body of Christ. When a baby is born we expect it to become part of a family, immediately, not get adopted in years later. When a person is baptized they need to be part of a family, so how they just be baptized and yet not recognize that they are now part of the body of Christ, the local church, which is the local expression of His universal body. Your thoughts?
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15 comments:
Jesus, John the Baptist, and the disciples did not baptize into a particular denomination. Should that be different today?
Denominations are not biblical. They are sinful human's attempt to understand the will of God. You baptize someone into the body of Christ of which the local church is the visible expression of God's body.
I pastored an Adventist Church which has two tiers of membership. A) You can join the church and only be a member of that church, not of the denomination. B) You could be member of the worldwide denomination. If they chose "a" then we left their membership status remain in the local church and not send it forward to the conference. This was very important for three groups of people: 1)Postmoderns, who are not behloden to a particular brand or denomination. 2)GenXers who are traditionally opposed to organized religion 3) Former Adventists who were still angry and carrying baggage. It seemed to work very well.
I asm replying to Pastor Gregg. He interpreted me as saying "donominations are evil." I did not say that. I said sinful human beings created denominations. Denominations are not sinful. They are just one expression of the body of Christ. Pastor Dixit's comment merit attention. I believe that when a person is baptized they should become part of the body of Christ. A two tier membership system allows for more choice.
Different levels of membership????? Special levels for those who are neither in nor out of the church and who cannot commit themselves fully to the body of Christ!!! We already have a membership status for them, they are non-members. They freely attend and worship with us, they participate in all our activities except those reserved for the voting members. If the local church accepts into it’s body as members those not willing to commit to the larger goals and policies of the denomination is the local church thereby setting itself up as an independent denomination?
Pastor Greg: We offered an Entrance to Membership Class (similar to what New Hope does) for all people interested in joining the church. Upon joining, they signed a membership covenant. No, we didn't have certain ministries reserved for "Adventist." Once you became a member of the church, you had full fledged permission to serve in all ministries. The only difference is they didn't see themselves as members of the larger worldwide denomination. Hey, I am not trying to convert Adventists, rather Christ followers. As I said, some people, due to their past experiences, are not open to denominations, etc. It seemed to work, and we were able to win many people for Christ.
I believe that when we baptize we should give instruction in the 13 or 28 doctrinal positions that we as Seventh day Adventists have adopted tailored to the ability or the the level the candidate to understand with some considersation to circumstances. With that said I think that we must realize that many of our positions and understandings of doctrine seem a little strange to those not aquainted with scriptures and it is only fair to them to fully explain these doctrines to them prior to their baptism. Surrendering to Jesus is of course the first requirement but after that they still need to know what that means.
Jesus said to go into all the world and make disciples of all nations baptizing them in the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit, teaching them all that I have commanded you. The goal is to make disciples which is an ongoing process. The process at New Hope is to follow the thirteen questions on the baptismal certificate as the basis for joining New Hope and becoming part of the Seventh-day Adventist church. But it does not stop there. WE want people to join a small group where they can continue to study the bible and grow in Christ and receive His character more and more in their lives.
Pastor Newman, I agree that we at New Hope are involved in the discipling process and I believe New Hope to be a very spiritual church. However I still have questions about whether we should be baptising those not willing to unite with the larger body of Christ. Pastor Kumar said in explaining why some did not want to join the Seventh-day Adventist church that "The only difference is they didn't see themselves as members of the larger worldwide denomination". Jesus said "to go into all the world and make disciples of all nations......". That is what we do as Seventh day Adventists. Is there a disconnect here?
Matt 3:6 (“Confessing their sins, they were baptized….) and Matt 3:11 (I baptize you with water for repentance) indicate that baptism is a ceremony tied to confession of sins and a state of repentance. Mark 16:16 Says that whoever believes the good news and is baptized will be saved. The good news is that Jesus died for our sins and through Him we can have forgiveness of sins and a chance at eternal life. Again in Acts 2:38 it says to “Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit”. We’re baptized by water in a ceremonial confession of sins and acceptance of Jesus’s death. Our baptism “gift” from God is the Holy Spirit. Acts 10:48 and Gal 3:26-28 indicate that when we are baptized, we’re baptized in to the name of Jesus Christ. Not the name of a church. 1 Corinth 12:13 indicates that we’re baptized into one body of Christ regardless of race or status. And Paul encourages us in Rom 14 to give a warm welcome to any brother who wants to join us.
It would seem to me then that baptism should not equate church membership but a welcoming ceremony into the body of Christ as one acknowledges their sinful nature and seeks repentance. They should then be given an invitation to join that local church community where they can receive spiritual support and fellowship.
As for denominations, they seem to be necessary because they draw the lines and boundaries of certain beliefs and interpretations of the Bible. It’s a categorical system that allows people to identify with others that may interpret the Bible similarly to how they do. It also provides a level of organization and support for people world wide. If a church member would like to join the larger denominational church then they would need to be briefed in denominational church doctrine. Choosing to belong to a local church and not the larger denomination doesn’t mean that I haven’t chosen to belong to the body of Christ. The body is one unit with different parts.
In common Christian usage of the term "Body of Christ" is used to describe believers in Christ. Jesus Christ is seen as the head of that body, which is seen as the church. The "members" of the body are seen as members of the Church. We are called to be as one, not a scattered collection of individuals without a vital connection to the larger body. Our purpose for existing as members of that body is the carrying forward of the gospel commission "go into all the world". We can do that in a limited capacity within our own sphere of local influence but then we are not sharing in the larger commision.
If the "body of Christ" consists of all believers everywhere, then baptism symbolizes our affiliation with something much larger than a local congregation OR its denominational parent. Although our human preferences and policies are imperfect, I think they should try to honor this bigger picture of membership -sans narrow definitions or trivial distinctions.
As we continue this discussion of the meaning of baptism as it relates to the church let’s summarize the traditional Adventist understanding.
1. Baptism is a personal act of faith, as opposed to the un-biblical concept of infant baptism.
2. Baptism is an outward sign of the believer’s acceptance of God’s grace, administered by immersion and marking the washing away and renunciation of sin.
3. Baptism is the public confession of the believer’s repentance and covenant with Christ resulting in his or her incorporation into His body, the church.
How do these relate to Christ’s baptism? And how does the practice of Christian baptism and the baptism of Jesus differ?
“The answer lies in a question that Paul later addressed to twelve converts in Ephesus, ‘What baptism were you given?’ he asked (Acts 19:3 NEB). They responded, ‘John’s baptism,’ which means a baptism in token of repentance. They had not yet heard of the out pouring of the Holy Spirit. They were then baptized again and received the Holy Spirit.
The essential difference between the two was that the baptism of John was to repentance but the baptism of Jesus was to repentance AND ministry (Matt. 3:11). At the baptism of Jesus he received the ordination to ministry. If when a person is baptized they are being ordained into ministry it is not a solo ministry. They are part of a group called in New Testament times the ecclesia, from which comes our word for church.
Paul when writing to the church in Corinth said, “The body is a unit, though it is made up of many parts; and though all its parts are many, they form one body. So it is with Christ. For we were all baptized by one Spirit into one body—whether Jews or Greeks, slave or free—and we were all given the one Spirit to drink. Now the body is not made up of one part but of many” (1 Cor. 12). Then he goes on to describe how the different parts of the body do not function in isolation from each other but work together in harmony.
Then in verse 27 he says “Now you are the body of Christ, and each one of you is a part of it.” It seems clear to me that when a person is baptized they also become part of the body of Christ which is expressed visibly in the local church. When a local church is part of a denomination I am not sure that I can see how a person can be part of that local church without also being part of that denomination.
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