I was recently visiting with some old friends from college days. One of them pastors a 2,000 member church in California. We got on the subject of tithe and I mentioned that at New Hope we don't tell people that they MUST pay all their tithe to the conference. His response was "If we don't do that then we will destroy our church structure."
Question: How important is our church structure for the carrying out of our mission. The Catholic church has three levels to carry out its world wide mission. The adventist church has five levels. (To keep things clear. We do not keep any tithe at New Hope. Everything marked tithe is sent to the conference.)
About Me
- JDavidNewman
- Silver Spring, Maryland, United States
- I am a curious life long seeker after truth. I am never satisfied to accept things because someone said so. I want to know Why? I am always asking questions, about myself, who I am, where am I going, what is the function of the church, especially the Adventist denomination, how can we do things better, and so on. I want to be relevant to the culture without being controlled by the culture. Most of all I want to see men and women, boys and girls, come to know Jesus and rejoice in the assurance of salvation.
10 comments:
Where do you tell them they can pay it to?
Can they pay it to a charity of their choice?
We are all familiar with these passages
“Bring ye all the tithes into the storehouse……..” Mal. 3:10
“The tithe is sacred, reserved by God for Himself. It is to be brought into His treasury to be used to sustain the gospel laborers in their work.” Testimonies, vol. 9 p. 249
“ That which has been set apart according to the Scriptures as belonging to the Lord constitutes the revenue of the gospel and is no longer ours.” Testimonies, vol. 9, pp. 246, 247
“ The tithe is to be held sacred for the work of the ministry, for bible teaching, and for the support of conference administration in the care of the churches and of field missionary endeavors. The tithe is not to be spent on other work…..” Church Manual 15th edition, pp. 137
“A very plain, definite message has been given to me for our people. I am bidden to tell them that they are making a mistake in applying the tithe to various objects which, though good in themselves, are not the object to which the Lord has said that the tithe should be applied…..God will judge for these things.” Testimonies, vol. 9, p. 248
“The financial plan of the denomination serves a larger purpose than appears…………The arrangement is more than a means of gathering and distributing funds. It is, under God, one of the great unifying factors of the Advent Movement.” Church Manual 15th edition, pp. 137
I would be interested in hearing of what you would actually advise to be a better or alternate use of the tithe.
As a member of the Seventh-day Adventist sisterhood of churches, we as a church have an obligation to abide by the working rules of the church unless clearly they are in contradiction to the word of God. The requirement to return our tithes to Gods storehouse, as represented by His church, does not run contrary to any requirement of God. God has put in place His church. The organization and it’s elected and ordained officers acting as the leadership of His church have established under the influence of the Holy Spirit the procedures and processes whereby the church accomplishes its mission. If we as individuals or as individual churches establish or allow a multitude of alternate plans how long before anarchy would be the rule?
Tithe in the Old Testament was ONLY used to support the Levites in their work of ministry. It was NOT used for the running of the tabernacle or temple. Offerings were used for that purpose. Tithe should only be used for those who minister for the Lord, if we are to follow the Bible pattern.
The denomination follows the ten percent part of the Bible tithe but that is where any similarity ends. We use tithe for the repair and upkeep of the conference, Union, division, and General Conference buildings, all utilities, etc.
In addition, contrary to the explicit counsel of Ellen White, we use tithe to pay colporteurs and teachers. That is why there is not enough tithe to add more ministers to grow churches.
The denomination follows a pramatic approach not a biblical approach to how the tithe is spent.
That is true, but I believe that it is also true that during that time it was a theocracy, the system of support was vastly different than now with the entire nations economy focused on the support of the temple obligations which included many things we now consider public responsiblies. The offerings used for the support of the temple included things that we might think of as a civil responsibility of government. They were not encumbered for the most part during this period of Israel with the civil taxes as we experience them now that are in addition to the required tithe and the offerings.
I think that it is a stretch to assume that tithe money is to be used only for salary. The ministry needs a place to work, there are phone bills to be paid, transportation, housing allowances, administrative expenses in maintaining the minister in the field and on and on. All of these things are for the support of those directly involved in the ministry and without them I should think it very difficult to accomplish the tasks of ministering.
Additionally, it has been my understanding that the teachers supported by tithe monies are the teachers directly responsible for the teaching of the religion topics within our schools and not those teaching math, social studies, gymnastics, etc. The colporteurs that receive salary from tithe are the credentialed leadership. Both of these categories are involved in the ministry and deserve the support that they receive.
Still, whether we agree or not, the position of the church to which we have signed up to has a process in place that we ought to comply with unless it is immoral or in direct contradiction to the word of God. If the church is wrong then it is up to God to deal with it. It is not for us to establish our own separate rules else where is the unity. The requirement placed on us is to “Bring ye all the tithes into the storehouse” God through His church will decide how it gets spent.
The tithe policy for paying teachers is this. If they are a full time religion teacher in any of our schools they are paid 100 percent of their salary from tithe. This also includes the boys dean, the girls dean, and the principal of our academies. On the elementary school level up to 30 percent of ANY teacher's salary can be paid from tithe. It does not matter whether they teach math or science or general subjects or are the home room teacher.
Here is the counsel from Ellen White in Counsels on Stewardship.
A very plain, definite message has been given to me for our people. I am bidden to tell them that they are making a mistake in applying the tithe to various objects which, though good in themselves, are not the object to which the Lord has said that the tithe should be applied. Those who make this use of the tithe are departing from the Lord's arrangement. God will judge for these things. {CS 102.2}
One reasons that the tithe may be applied to school purposes. Still others reason that canvassers and colporteurs should be supported from the tithe. But a great mistake is made when the tithe is drawn from the object for which it is to be used--the support of the ministers. . . . {CS 102.3}
The tithe is the Lord's, and those who meddle with it will be punished with the loss of their heavenly treasure unless they repent. Let the work no longer be hedged up because the tithe has been diverted into various channels other than the one to which the Lord has said it should go. Provision is to be made for these other lines of work. They are to be sustained, but not from the tithe. God has not changed; the tithe is still to be used for the support of the ministry.--9T 247-250. {CS 102.4}
It was at an Annual Council only about 30 years ago that tithe was used for the first time to pay elementary teachers. And why? We were having trouble raising enough money to pay the teachers and the tithe always came in in regular amounts and in large amounts. And the argument was used that elementary teachers spend 30 percent of their time teaching the Bible. This is very poor reasoning since math teachers and geography teachers, etc., are not teaching the Bible. And it was contrary, anyway, to what Ellen White said. She said schools were important but they needed to be funded apart from tithe.
What I am saying is that our denomination has found ways to rationalize what Ellen White said on this subject.
Regarding following the Church Manual and the policies of the church almost all large churches ignore large portions of the Church Manual. The Church Manual was written for small churches not large churches. That is the problem with policies. You can never develop a consistent policy.
Yes, we need to follow the policies of the denomination but not when they actually hinder a church from growing. Administrators recognize this and that is why they wink at many of these infractions.
Most administrators will let a church do almost anything as long as it does the following: 1. Does not teach doctrines contrary to the 28 doctrines. 2. Has a tithe increase each year. 3. The pastor is not involved in immoral relationships, 4. And the membership is increasing each year. This is the reality in which we live today.
so should we get rid of "christian education"
Thank you Pastor, that was a great answer. But still, then what counsel would you provide as to an alternate place in which to entrust the tithe money. I guess I am still uncomfortable with your answers in that the requirement is to return the tithe to the storehouse which most acknowledge is through the official established church channels. The decisions are made by men of integrity, wisdom and training to be in the positions of authority which they occupy while representing the interests of God and His family on earth. We do not control how they make the decision to distribute funds, it is Lords responsibility to provide them guidance and hopefully they follow that guidance. He has entrusted His church to treat the funds in accordance with His established requirement and He will take care of any misuse and hold accountable those who misuse the funds. What they are doing does not seem evil or immoral. They were placed in a position to make those decisions based on the needs at the time. I am not always comfortable in how the church at New Hope spends money either, but that is not my issue. I have chosen to unite with the New Hope Church and will support with my time, funds and interest the decisions made by those in positions of responsibility until issues of immorality or heresy are involved.
Do we withhold our support and loyalty to the worldwide church because they do not always act in wisdom as we understand it or do we accept it with its human shortcomings until chang can be affected. I think the better part of wisdom is to support the church even with its obvious flaws. There are channels that provide avenues for reform or renewal available to us, those channels are there to prevent any one group or individual from dominating the church. If we have issues such as this that need to be corrected we should work the problem and not attempt to give advice that is counter to the church position or affirmation to those willing to bypass the collective decision of the church.
By the way, I am enjoying the BLOGS. I think they are great. Just wish more would provide input. We could all learn a little more from each other
First, Marty, No we should not get rid of Christian education. It has a great function. Tithe is not the basis for its funding.
David, I agree with your last point, that more people should be invovled in writing on this blog.
Regarding the issue of trusting those who spend the tithe. I agree that our conference brethren are men of integrity and I am not saying that we do not send any tithe to them. You will notice that we actually have goal in our weekly bulletin for tithe. We want to make sure that we are responsible and pay the tithe necessary that policty calls for to support the three pastors paid by the conferene. The amount for our goal includes all the percentages to help small churches and all the administrative structure of the church.
But, and here is the but. Change never comes from the bureaucracy. All changes in the Church Manual, for example, come about because some local church has begun something different and eventually the wider church recognizes the need. Change begins at the local level. And it is always a balancing act. That is why discussion like this is so helpful. I need the input of all opinions from all sides. It is in the wider discussion that balance is kept. When few people join the discussion it makes it harder to keep the balance.
Thank you pastor for agreeing with my first point, I guess by inference you did not agree with the other points though. No matter because I actually bring up some of the other issues in a way that I was hoping would incite or inspire others to join in and we could get a real dialog going. I think our offering numbers look pretty good, including the tithe. The offering given for local expenses is running, according to the weekly published numbers in the bulletin at a rate equal to the tithe. In that regard you guys are doing something right. The church is full every Sabbath which compared to the traditional church we used to have at Laurel is amazing. Again, I think that you all have put together a great program. And as a tribute to the program of Pastor Ann, a family leaving church this past Sabbath, father, mother and son about 6 years old, was overheard by me talking about their Sabbath experience here. The young boy was telling his parents that he loved it here and wanted to come back. I had not seen them here before and believe it was their first visit. Another family I overheard as I was walking through the church was expressing the same sentiments about the church service itself. We have found a niche that seems to be filling a real spiritual need. Hopefully, your dream of New Hope becoming a teaching church will be realized.
A point that you did not mention is that while the local church is expected to support itself in conformance with the biblical standard with non-tithe money the denominational administrative organizations do seem to take liberties in operating differently
I don't believe you got that response. People hold onto the tithe like a security blanket. They can't seem to realize that the principle that we have least control over is when God takes over and controls. People think if we don't preach the tithe then the people will not give and then we will be bankrupt. so instead they say this is commanded, and for now it causes some comfort. Let go of the security blanket, and let the Spirit of God take care of the hearts of people.
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