Wednesday, January 10, 2007
Young Adult Service
Our second worship service at 12:15 pm is composed largely of young adults. There has been some discussion about making it more young adult friendly, such as edgier music, sermons topics more diretly related to young adults, video taping the service, streaming video the service. And so on. I need to hear from the young adults. What do you think? And more important how many of you would be willing to help plan and direct that kind of service in music, singing, drama, making of of video clips, ushering, and so on? Let's see how many people are reading this blog.
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22 comments:
And to think that the services were already edgy. :) It is really great you are thinking this way Pastor! Your innovative way of thinking is very much appreciated! You can sign me up to help! Akhenaton acjeffers@verizon.net
Ah, pharaoh's protege, you are so annonymous I do not know who you are. If you want keep hiding your identity send me you real name to jdavidnewman@gmail.com
....my name and e-mail address is in the comment :)
What about first service being more "edgy"? I was under the impression that the young adults at New Hope were the "more conservatives"
It depends who you talk to. No one has done a scientific study (smile)
What about my first question about making first service more edgy?
How would you like to see first service more edgy? Worship can always be improved. The praise team did a wonderful job this past Sabbath.
What did you mean in your orginial statement stating that you wanted to see second service more "edgy"?
In my opinion I like more upbeat songs. Songs that make you want to clap.
Marty, I agree. I have been advocating for some time faster music in our services and I get the excuse that it is harder to sing.
Pastor, I'd be really interesting about how you've "progressed" from a more traditional view of Adventism and worship to a more open one. Have you written this out somewhere?
You're openness and willingness to experiment is very welcome.
Glenn
I agree with you Paster Newman about somgs that you can not sing. There are a number of upbeat songs that you can sing along to. There are also songs that are not upbeat that the "congregation" does not know or is hard to sing. I can think of two this past week.
I hope that in your discussion of an edgier second service and possible spill over into the first service that someone takes into account that not everyone really enjoys or is nourished by the sound of some of the musical selections that are performed each week. The music sometimes grates on the nerves. That is not to say that the overall program is not received well, and indeed our musicians put a lot of heart into their music and are obviously spirit motivated and dedicated to their ministry. I think that is wonderful. However that does not make their music pleasing to everyone and we need to keep in mind that a balance must be struck at some point or risk alienating those that need a lessor edgy music. I think we have a great program going on at New Hope but we need to appeal to all ages and tastes and not get ourselves locked into a narrowly focused agenda that appeals to only one segment.
I know that it can be explained down to a matter of music taste and we need to be tolerant of others peculiar or particular tastes, and tastes do matter
By the way, I never want to see us go back to the old hymn book days. The music seemed lifeless, the congregation bored and unenthusiastic -- usually reminded me more of a funeral dirge than an act of singing praises to our God
Dave, you make excellent points. That is why I have been talking about second service not first. Choice is important for people and right now the only choice we offer is time. Music styles vary a lot. I have given some definite instructions of how we plan our music at New Hope (even though I am not a musician) but these are not always followed.
Marty also makes an excellent point about singability which is one of my points. When you have four worship teams it is not easy to get them all consistently on the same page. They are all very dedicated people and I appreciate the time they put into practice and ministering on Sabbath
Glen, it has been a long transition from a time when I actively opposed the type of music we sing at New Hope to a grudging toleration to an acceptance today. It still is not my favorite kind of music. I much prefer classical music as I list in my bio on my blog. I also agree with Dave Wheeler that we do not want to go back to the days of just singing hymns. Partly because hymns were the dynamic music and thoughts of their day but we should not have to sing the culture of two hundred years ago. There is relevance to our culture today and we need to sing the songs of the experience of our culture
I'm a little late jumping into this discussion. Instead of coming up with suggestions for the young adult service I had a few questions.
I have a strong preference for classical music over contemporary Christian music, which makes me feel strangely out of place in a church like New Hope. I like some CCM, but most of it (especially the music at New Hope) doesn't speak to me. I try to get into the music, but it usually doesn't work and I just feel goofy instead.
Don't get me wrong. I'm not trying to argue about music styles - it's a pointless debate. As I said above, I do like some of the contemporary music, particularly the "edgier" stuff. I'm only talking about personal tastes here.
Whenever I bring up this topic people say that I'm a snob. They ask me why I don't go to one of the more traditional SDA churches. I could do that, but there is hardly anybody my age at those churches (I'm a young adult). Quite a dilemma.
So, here are my questions:
1. Why should a "snob" like me attend New Hope (or any similar church)?
2. Is it wrong to choose a church based on its style of music? Or to choose because of social reasons?
3. What criteria should you use in choosing a church?
4. What is the purpose of a church service?
5. Am I missing the point if I'm not getting anything out of the praise songs?
6. If I don't feel like singing, clapping, or raising my hands, does this mean I'm a "conservative"?
7. Do the terms "conservative" and "legalistic" always go together? Are they synonymous?
8. Where do you go when you don't really fit in at any church?
Jared
Jared, these are really great great questions. I appreciate your honesty and frankness. Here are my answers but I would love others to give their answers as well. I will pose your question then give my answer. I want to be very careful how I answer because it is not my intention to denigrate any other Adventist churches. But I am the senior pastor of New Hope so obviously I have a bias.
1. Why should a "snob" like me attend New Hope (or any similar church)?
Attending church is more than just coming to the worship service. In 1 Cor. 12 Paul takes considerable space to comparing the church to the human body. The body is made up of many different parts but they are all necessary for the healthy functioning of the body. At New Hope we are trying to grow a healthy body. This means that some parts may not seem as relevant or as fun as other parts. Back to the body. The heart, the lungs, the eyes, get lots of attention, but we seldom extol the bowels except when something goes wrong. We seldom think about our liver. So there will be parts of the church that may not be the most appealing to one but they are still part of creating a healthy body, the body of Christ. I would hope that people attend New Hope not just for the music but because they sense something deeper going on in this church, that we are not interested in just making “Adventists” out of people but true Christians, people who are being transformed into the character of Christ.
2. Is it wrong to choose a church based on its style of music? Or to choose because of social reasons?
Absolutely not. People who put up bird feeding stations in their back yard know they must shell out a variety of seed if they are to have a variety of birds at their feeding stations. People are similar. That is why we need a variety of churches. We need churches with classical and hymn style services, churches with CCM, churches with gospel and southern gospel and we could go on. Social reasons are one of the most important reasons for joining a church. A church is like a body, all the parts need to be working together. God made us to be social creatures. As he said after he created Adam, “It is not good for man to be alone,” and that means women too.
3. What criteria should you use in choosing a church?
1. Is grace predominant? Is the gospel clearly preached?
2. Is it interested in developing the whole person, does it have a mix of large (worship) activities and small (small groups).
3. Is it relevant? Is it dealing with today’s issues rather than those of another generation?
4. Is it family oriented? Does it provide for children through all the ages?
5. Does a person feel inspired and encouraged after worshiping?
6. Does it make you think? Does it stretch your comfort zone?
7. Is it open to change?
These are just a start.
4. What is the purpose of a church service?
Great question. A fire when it burns needs more than one stick. If you take a stick out of the fire it soon goes out but burns much longer and more intensely when it burns with all the other sticks. While you can worship God by yourself you also receive great benefit and encouragement by worship with others. The purpose is to come together as a group to give praise to the God who has redeemed us. Worship is a time of corporate thanksgiving that the God of the Universe loved enough to come to this world and save us. Worship is far more than what happens on the platform. The purpose of the praise time and the sermon time is to involve the whole attending community. We try and follow this acrostic: EPIC. E for experiential, P for particpatory, I for inspiring, and C for connecting (connecting with each other and especially with God).
5. Am I missing the point if I'm not getting anything out of the praise songs?
This is a hard question to answer. I would hope that everyone gets something out of the whole service. When I first started attending a church with praise songs I didn’t get much out of the praise time. I sat there in a state of shock. But once I decided that we were not dealing with moral issues I began asking myself some questions? What are the words saying that might speak to me? How are these words relevant? Am I willing to let go and let the rhythm and pace of the music touch my emotions. I find that many times people who show little emotion have more difficulty with praise songs. God made us with emotion but the Devil has found a way to either get us to go over board with emotions or wall them off to a great degree. At New Hope we want people to become emotional involved as well as intellectual involved and music is one of the best ways for this to happen.
6. If I don't feel like singing, clapping, or raising my hands, does this mean I'm a "conservative"?
Not at all. It really has nothing to do with being conservative or liberal. It has to do with our emotional makeup, our personalty. Most of us have taken personality tests and realize there are four basic personalities (with many variations on the four). Some of us are not just that demonstrative. That is OK. That is who we are. What is more important is what is going on inside not what is happening on the outside.
7. Do the terms "conservative" and "legalistic" always go together? Are they synonymous?
No, not at all. First of all, words only have the meaning we give to them and there are many definitions of conservative with fewer for legalistic. Legalistic means going by the book, making rules more important than relationships. Conservative means you go a little slower when it comes to change but does not means you never change or grow.
8. Where do you go when you don't really fit in at any church?
First, have you tried many different churches? There is a lot of variety out there. Second, start up a church that fits what you want. There is no law that says it has to be a pastor or the conference that plants new churches. Third, maybe, just maybe, the issue is not so much the church but you (plural, I am not speaking of Jared). Maybe the individual having trouble with church needs to change some of there assumptions, some of their thinking. Fourthly, pose questions like these. Dialog with church leaders. It could be that dialog will change thinking on both sides.
I want to relate to Jared who does not feel like he belongs to any church.
It took some searching for my husband and I to find a church that had enough for each of us to enjoy and feel fulfilled.
Me: grew up SDA and had found a good predominantly Black "Gospel Celebration" church here in the area. I enjoyed the upbeat music, drums and choirs. I also knew that sometimes the pastor needed to make a point and would repeat or raise his voice. I knew that church could last for a while and made no plans until early Sabbath evenings.
He: grew up very Catholic and Caucasian. Mass lasted (at his last church before he converted) exactly 37 minutes and was a very quiet and somber affair. Imagine his surprise when he first visited my church during our dating. (His family couldn't believe that church could go from 11am to 1:30 or 2.) My sister-in-law had questions as to how intermission was handled!!!
It did take some time of searching and compromise. We understand that sometimes we have to take what we like and leave the rest as with everything in life.
My husband quietly stands during the music. His singing is best appreciated by our cat but he says the "rock concert" feeling is gone. He really enjoys the sermons because Pastor Newman doesn't "scream at him".
The music is less edgy than I am used to but still very inspiring and I always leave motivated to do better in my walk with God and my daily life.
Last but not least "Participation is the key to harmony". We found that by getting involved in something small at the church (we do greeter service on fifth Sabbaths and one small group) we then had people we could talk to one on one. We found that we "clicked" with some people and they then looked out for us, prayed for us and made us feel a part of the church.
It always surprises us the people we have become close to at New Hope. We now have friends across all races and age groups.
Happy Searching!! Thanks again for your honesty.
I appreciate the comments being made. I also appreciate the dedicated group of volunteers it takes to put on just the worship service part of what we do on Sabbath. It takes anywhere from 25 to 35 volunteers each Sabbath. Thank you.
Thanks for the advice, Lisa and Pastor Newman. I hope my previous post didn't come across negatively. I think the praise teams do a great job, and I know it's hard work too.
There are a lot of things I appreciate about New Hope. I've been to a lot of other churches, but I'm still at New Hope because they emphasize the things that really matter.
I would love to know your rationale for "targeting" young adults for your second service. And if you don't mind would love to hear what impact has this type of targeting has had on your church attendance.
When I came to New Hope the second service attendance was running around 50 people. Now it is close tyo 250. Second service is a copy of first service. There was no intention to target a different group for second service. It seems that young adults like the service because it is later and since it has grown there are a lot more opportunities for fellowship with other young adults. I have been told that New Hope is the place to be if you are a young adult.
This being the case I started this post with the suggestion that maybe we should become more intentional with reaching young adults in our area and make this service targeted more to young adults than our first service.
It is possible that if we did this our attendance would grow even more.
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